Sideways floating Oscar

[mayfly1963]

My beautiful 8 year-old Oscar (Bonnie) has taken ill.

Last spring her big tank sprang yet another leak, so we ended up getting her a new 75 gallon tank. All summer she seemed as happy as she could be, and more social than she ever was before. But when the weather turned cold in October, I discovered one day that her heater had gone out (and there wasn't any heat in the house at the time). I think her tank temperature got down in the low 60s. I put two smaller heaters in her tank, and she seemed to be doing better.

But about three weeks ago, she started getting more and more lethargic and I noticed that she was always hanging out in one spot, near the top of the tank with her back fin out of the water. I cleaned her tank as usual that weekend, but added some antifungal medicine because her fins looked to have some white cloudy places on them. She has gone downhill from there, and when I cleaned her tank last weekend, she was swimming around like she was drunk. By the time I finished, she had stopped swimming, and instead just floated on her side at the top of the tank. I suppose it's something wrong with her swim bladder? I've been treating her with anti-fungal, antibiotic, and added some aquarium salt, but she still can't stay upright for very long at a time. She does seem to make some effort to swim normally now, but you can tell it's a struggle for her to stay up straight, and it looks like she gets tired and eventually gives up.

So my questions: Do you think there's any chance she will recover? If so, how long might it take? Is there something else I need to be doing for her? And if she isn't improving, at what point do I need to do the humane thing and euthanize her (and what is the best way to do that)?

Thanks in advance for any advice you all can give. Funny how attached you can get to your pets, isn't it.

[mewickham]

Oscars are one of the species most susceptible to cold-- fish farmers in Florida always report big losses of them during cold snaps, but I'm not sure that getting down to 60 degrees is enough to do serious damage.

In any case, swim bladder problems are notoriously difficult to treat. Sometimes a good antibiotic will do it, but you must use one that absorbs well internally. (Many only treat the outside of the fish.) Good examples are kanamycin, furanoid drugs (anything with "fur" in the active ingredient name, such as nifurpurinol, nitrofurizolidone, etc.), minocycline, and (to some extent) triple sulfa. These are active ingredients. Look for them on the label. The salt may help some, too, as it reduces the difference in osmotic pressure between inside and outside the fish.

The most important thing to check are the ammonia and pH levels in the tank. Large fish put out lots of waste. As waste breaks down, acids are produced. The result, over time, is a drop in pH. This can happen very fast in tanks with large fish. If pH drops below 6.4, the helpful bacteria that break down ammonia and nitrite stop working. So ammonia builds up. Fortunately, in low pH, it takes the form of ammonium ion, which is not as toxic to fish-- until you make a big water change, which raises the pH and makes the remaining ammonium convert to very toxic ammonia. Low pH also is a common cause of cloudy eyes on large fish-- perhaps even the cloudiness of the skin you mentioned.

[mayfly1963]

Mike,

Thank you so much for your reply. I will check all of the parameters as you suggested and see what other medications I might be able to pick up locally. I've been treating her with amoxicillin, but from reading your reply, I suspect that is one of those "external only" antibiotics that isn't going to help her much. I know Oscars can live a good long time in captivity, and even though she's already 8 years old, I hope she will live several more years -- if I can just get her over this.

Cara

[mewickham]

Amoxicillin is supposed to treat both gram-positive and gram-negative bacteria, so may be of use. You generally want to avoid gram-positive medication, such as penicillin, tetracycline, terramycin, ampicillin. They are usually not very effective as most bacterial infections of fish are of the gram-negative type. (This refers to whether or not Gram's stain will color the bacteria.)

[mayfly1963]

I don't know if this is a good sign, or bad, but when I got home, Bonnie was still on her side, but she wasn't floating up at the top anymore. Instead, she seemed to be steering herself through the water about midway down the tank. Mike, do you think I should do another water change, maybe 25%, then add more medicine? I haven't yet tested the pH or other parameters, so I don't know what they're reading. **** Checked pH and if the test strips are accurate, it is around 6.2 to 6.4 ****

[mewickham]

Fresh water is almost always good for helping heal sick fish. Usually, it's best to change some water and redose meds daily. I say "almost always" because, with the pH as low as yours is, if there is also high ammonium, a water change can boost the pH enough to convert ammonium to toxic ammonia. So I can't tell you whether or not to change water without knowing the ammonia reading-- unless you make a 100% water change. That would delete any ammonia. There are also products, such as Amquel for neutralizing ammonia, but you need a compatible (salicylate-based, not Nessler's reagent-based) ammonia test kit to use with those products.

For what it's worth, sometimes fish live a long time with swim bladder problems. And sometimes they cure themselves. Swim bladder issues can be caused by disease, temporary intestinal blockage, tumors pressing on the bladder, injury, parasites, etc.

[mayfly1963]

Thanks Mike. When the cat or the dog gets sick, we know we can take them to the vet...but caring for the fish is so totally foreign that I've been afraid that my attempts to "help" are doing more harm than good. I really can't tell you how much I appreciate your input. We've had Bonnie for a good while, but have been really fortunate in that she's been healthy most of the time. I'm hopeful that she'll recover. I checked on her about 30 minutes ago and she was actually swimming upright again (although still a bit wobbly looking) and for the first time in more than a week she responded to my movement outside her tank. I think I'll take the cautious approach, as you suggested, and maybe hold off on doing the water change for another day or so, and check into some ways to very gradually bring the pH back up to a more favorable range. Our tap water tests out to be near a pH of 6.8 - 7.0 on the strips, so I suspect her problems now are exactly what you described -- a direct result of me failing to keep her tank clean enough.

[snakeskinner]

for what it's worth, I havn't used a test strip yet that was reliable. I recommend getting a good dropper test kit. Even better if you just wanna splurge and get some electronic testing equipment would be even better but most people aren't that crazy Kyle

[mayfly1963]

Thanks Kyle. I'll check into that. These strips are pretty old too, which I'm sure doesn't help. She hasn't looked very good at all today. I had some hope yesterday but now she's just hanging out with her nose in the gravel at the bottom of the tank.

[snakeskinner]

I knew a lady with a fancy goldfish that had some sort of swim bladder issue that actually attached a small float with fishing string to keep it upright. you could probably do something the same with weights and such. seems kinda wacky to me but figured I'd pass on the option anyway. Of course it sounds like you might have more than just a swim bladder issue with your oscar. Kyle

[sskruzr]

I knew a lady with a fancy goldfish that had some sort of swim bladder issue that actually attached a small float with fishing string to keep it upright. you could probably do something the same with weights and such. seems kinda wacky to me but figured I'd pass on the option anyway. Of course it sounds like you might have more than just a swim bladder issue with your oscar. Kyle

Make sure you take pictures and post if you do this.

[mayfly1963]

I've actually wondered if I could put some kind of weight on Bonnie to hold her upright! She's moved around her tank a lot today, but still can't stay upright for more than maybe 30 to 45 seconds at a time, and she doesn't float at the top anymore...she comes to rest on the bottom of the tank with her head on the gravel. She hasn't eaten in well over a week now, and I don't know how long she'll last like that.

[jlgeorge]

Sorry to hear about your Oscar. I don't have much to add other than do you possibly have a smaller tank you could put it in to treat? I have always found that treating oscars in a smaller tank, with heavy aeration seems to work out better, and easier on the pocketbook. Also, if your water conditions aren't ideal in your larger tank, its easier to change those in a smaller tank. The trick is doing this without causing any shock to the fish, so filling with water from the existing tank at first would be the ideal way, then gradually making any changes.
The not eating thing has me wondering if it has possibly swallowed something it shouldn't have. I have heard this can manifest a large number of weird symptoms in a fish.

[mayfly1963]

Don't know for sure what caused her problem, but she passed away today. While I'm very sad about that, at least she's not suffering anymore. Thank you all so much for your suggestions and your kind words!

[mewickham]

Sorry to hear about your fish!

[mayfly1963]

Thank you, Mike. I appreciate it.