Guppy Species

[GrakFu]

Are fancy guppies just fancy guppies? Regardless of color/shape. Is there a special difference between feeders and fancies? I have been searching online to no avail. My concern here is I have an abundance of males and a very limited number of females and would prefer to get the cheaper feeder females. I understand the idea of sireing(probably not the right term for fish) but I am unable to find anything about females contributing to color.
I have 3 females that have some color and I hope to breed them with my sole(as of now) Tiger Edler. One of the females I am fairly sure is a tiger as well, based on markings. 2 of the females I would like to breed however have blue/red tails. Will the females impart their color? Are they a different species?
Today I am culling the herd. I have at least one with a deformed spine. I am assuming there are more with deformities. I also have a number that are not pleasing to my eye. These guys will be moved into another tank, probably to meet their demise as feeders. The remaining males I am planning to breed at a later date as feeders, BAP(if they count as different species) and to add colour to my peaceful community tank.

[dennysfishroom]

There may be more, but the only "different species I can think of are Endlers and Rubra (?). All of the others are the same species regardless of finnage, size color or point of origin. Generally speaking, if you're just breeding them for feeders or to add a little color, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference. If you're trying for something more, you probably want to use your best male with whatever females you have. Improving the color will probably take many generations, always using your best males and random females. Usually hobbyist don't recommend mixing species. Denny

[GrakFu]

10/4 I will try to obtain a few more endler species females. The others I plan to breed will just be "fancy" guppies for the plain old aquarist. Thanks for the help!

[Libertas]

If you want some pure Endler females, let me know. I would ask not to mix standard guppies and Endler's though. Endler's are believed to be extinct in the wild (habitat loss) and most Endler's enthusiast try to keep them separate from guppies.

[GrakFu]

I picked up some Endlers from Seafari yesterday. From my very limited knowledge, they seems to be hybrids. Correct me if I am wrong but endlers usually lack blues/pinks. These are very heavy on the pink. I don't plan to trade or sell any hybrids as anything other then fancy guppies. Will/do you have a fairly constant supply of endlers? I've had to move my fancies into a temporary tank to facilitate my newly acquired rainbow fish fry. As such I've lost a lot of room for breeding my endlers until I have another tank cycled.

[Libertas]

I'm currently breeding. Just got a fresh bloodline off of aquabid to beef up my pool. There are several color morphs that I believe are considered pure but yours do sound like mixed. Have to see to be sure.

[GrakFu]

Right now they are only about 1/4 to 1/2 inch. So there isn't a lot of color. As once they grow I will be able to verify for sure. Right now my male is enjoying his harum. I pulled my endler female and two fancy from the normal school. Hoping to breed pure. I figure I might as well wait 4 or so months to make sure the week she spent with fancies doesn't provide a tarnished line. Hopefully this will help me decide on taking up our SMP chair. "Thought to be extinct in the wild" seems like a good push forward.

[dennysfishroom]

Just thinking that we may want to have some fish other than Endlers for the SMP. It seems like there are many captive bred lines available, and I was thinking I read somewhere that they are not as endangered in the wild as first believed. I'm not sure what would be a better fish, but you may want to get some input from others with an interest in the SMP. Denny

[GrakFu]

I agree that there are a number of better fish for the SMP. It's just a readily available stock that makes for a much cheaper and quicker "turn around" for my first breeding fish. I have an e-mail in to the folks over at C.A.R.E.S.. Hopefully by the time we are back from vacation I will be a well read fish conservationist:) Baby steps seem like a good choice when thinking about trying to save an endangered species.

[Libertas]

Please pass along any info you get. I'm interested in running the BAP but DEFINITELY want to be involved with SMP.

P.S. I agree with Denny about Endler's and SMP but they were my first breeding experience and have made me want to expand my knowledge and experience in that area. Besides, they're FUN!

[mewickham]

Feeder guppies and fancy guppies are the same species, (Poecilia reticulata) regardless of color/finnage. Endler's livebearers are a different species (P. wingei), and should not be kept in the same tank as guppies as they will cross-breed. I think the third species that Denny mentioned is P. picta, and rarely seen in the hobby. This one can also cross-breed.

The tiger endler's that I am familiar with are hybrids of Endler's livebearers and cobraskin guppies. I wish that these didn't exist, because people then feel it is okay to breed them with normal Endler's livebearers. That, of course, pollutes the Endler's gene pool. As someone else mentioned, these fish are believed by some to already be extinct in the wild. The pool where doctor Endler found them has since merged with the sea.

Here's a link to a pretty good Endler's livebearer page. (http://www.swampriveraquatics.com/) The ones shown as original wild stock are most interesting. They look most like the stock I had many years ago, which was derived from Dr. Endler's original stock. In a personal communication I had with him, he pointed out that the fish he originally collected had lots of green on them and the only way he spotted them at all in the green water pond was that he saw the green spots moving about.

[mewickham]

Regarding genetics, the female, too, passes along genes that determine color and finnage. Unfortunately, since females display little in this regard themselves, we're mostly dependent on the males for determining breeding traits to select. If you want to selectively breed livebearers it is very important to separate the sexes as they become distinguishable. The fish can breed very early, and females can store sperm and have more than one batch of babies from a single mating. So if you want to KNOW which male bred with which female-- and, therefore, who the babies belong to-- you must separate the breeders while still immature and then later combine them in a tank alone for mating.

There were some beautiful guppies at the last meeting auction. The bags were loaded with males, though, and few (if any) females. The males will not leave the females alone. So it might be best for those who bought a bag of those guppies to separate a male/female pair out and keep them in a different tank than all the rest of the males. Otherwise, the female will be hounded relentlessly.

[dennysfishroom]

I remember reading an article year ago about the best way to develop or improve guppy strains. That breeder would choose his best 3 males and mate them to 6 random females (since yopu couldn't tell what the females were passing on for genes anyway). Then from the fry, pick 6 random females from the F1 and mate them to your 3 best males again. It could be from the original males or from the F1 males, whoever was the best. After multiple generations the strain would become better and more uniform. You did have to have a very clear and consistent idea of what you were selecting for. You also needed to be sure you ruthlessly culled any fry that were substandard. Denny